Michel Martin van NPR speaks with Nicholas Burns, former American ambassador in China, about the military parade of the country and his efforts to reform the geopolitical world order.
Michel Martin, host:
For a further view of how China tries to put his stamp on world affairs, we are accompanied by Nicholas Burns. He was the American ambassador in China during the Biden administration, including top diplomatic posts in multiple administrations, and he now gives international relations at Harvard University. Good morning. Thank you very much for coming to us again.
Nicholas Burns: Good Morning, Michel.
Martin: What is your feeling of what this parade is all about?
Burns: Well, it was quite a spectacle. It was very rich in symbolism, many messages were sent. I think the Chinese first wanted to express the world their growing military power. That was central in this parade yesterday. Secondly, the hug, a kind of alliance of autocrats, of dictators, in which Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping embrace each other, with Kim Jong Un of Noord -Korea and many other autocratic leaders in – present.
And I think third – and this is for Americans – Xi Jinping and Putin try to rewrite the history of the Second World War, as XI said two days ago that the most important victors were China and the Soviet Union. Well, that is news for the United States because during the Second World War we were the Savior of China – the United States, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. We were China’s Air Force against the Japanese troops, and we re -ordered the Chinese army of India in Kunming in the province of Yunnan in western China. And that was a very dangerous operation for Americans. We have suffered a lot of losses. So they do this because today they want to reduce the power of the United States.
Martin: Interesting.
Burns: So those messages were really in -depth.
Martin: You know, it is interesting because people will remember a few months ago, President Trump organized his own military parade in Washington, DC, officially to commemorate the 250 -year anniversary of the US Army. So I think some people wondered whether this was partly aimed at combating that image. But what I hear you say is that it is actually much deeper than that, about rewriting a much broader history than that of a few months ago.
Burns: I think it’s doing that. You know, and I think President Trump was right yesterday to say, you must acknowledge that the United States were fundamental part of the war on behalf of the Nationalist China before the Communist victory in 1949. In fact, you know, it was Franklin Delano Roosevelt who was part of the VNIEDE STORDEY. Churchill did not agree, but Roosevelt got his way. So the Chinese don’t want to recognize this history …
Martin: so …
Burns: … The Communist Party of China today, that the United States actually considered China as a great power and wanted to perpetuate that. This is nationalistic China from Chiang Kai-Shek. This is before the communist revolution of 1949.
Martin: So let’s talk about the guest list – 26 heads of state, including Slovakia, a NATO member. What does this tell us about the influence of Beijing at the present moment?
Burns: Well, it was really very remarkable. Yesterday there was a single representative at a high level of a democratic country during that ceremony yesterday, yesterday during the Parade. And so these are all leaders who are complete autocrats, or near Autocrats in the case of the Slovak leader, in the case of the Hungarian leader, so people. And I think, you know, the counterpoint is for the United States, look at the remarkable success of Japan and Germany, the two countries that attacked us – during the Second World War, which we fought. And yet they are real democracies now. They are strong American allies. And I think that is the best American counter recognition here – that we believe in democracy, that we believe in democratic alliances. And that is powerful.
Martin: So a new world order dominated by China – is that taking shape? And what could that look like, as short as you can?
Burns: China, Russia and North Korea, perhaps connected to Iran, want to combat the power of the United States. China certainly wants to overtake the US in power in the Indo-Pacific, and we cannot let that happen. So this is a – this was a spectacle from yesterday, really represents where international politics is today.
Martin: That is former American ambassador in China Nicholas Burns. Ambassador Burns, thank you very much for coming to us again.
Burns: Thank you very much.
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